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APH-Alex

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^ Ahhh. See, we were created, and so, it may be hard for us 'creatures' to fully grasp the idea of never having to be created. God was always in existance. He was never created or simply appeared.

 

I believe that although we were CREATED, evolution does exist. We, as humans, were created by God in his image. Although evolution is slowly taking place in us as well as other organisms, we, being only approximately 6000 years old, have not begun to see the changes.

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^ Ahhh. See, we were created, and so, it may be hard for us 'creatures' to fully grasp the idea of never having to be created. God was always in existance. He was never created or simply appeared.

 

I believe that although we were CREATED, evolution does exist. We, as humans, were created by God in his image. Although evolution is slowly taking place in us as well as other organisms, we, being only approximately 6000 years old, have not begun to see the changes.

 

I just don't understand how people can believe such bullaphnetworks.com. We made up the knowledge you hold in your consciousness. None of what you believe is real.

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I don't follow any religion at all, but religion is a good guideline for life and living life.

 

That really depends on which religion you pick and how you and others choose to interoperate it. I'm sure those who blew up the world trade centre are not a good example of a good religion ?

 

Every war ever waged has been instigated or fully motivated over religious beliefs.

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That really depends on which religion you pick and how you and others choose to interoperate it. I'm sure those who blew up the world trade centre are not a good example of a good religion ?

 

Every war ever waged has been instigated or fully motivated over religious beliefs.

 

 

You're right about wars. It's all a perception thing and each individual's views on it. We all have a 'role' to play in this world (good/bad) and religion is definately one of the biggest factors on how someone will be and play this role. Now of course we have small religious communities and large ones. For the most part, most North Americans will follow the major religions but we have smaller religions that are both good and bad (esp seen in the US, with the US terrorist religion).

 

This is the main reason why I don't follow religion is mainly because of fighting. I'll take bits and pieces of all religions because all religions have something good to offer.

 

[edit]

I guess I should also say Europe too :)

Edited by gummyz

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Properly said, there are some people who claims to be part of certain groups, being radicals, who likes to instigate.

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If God created us, who created God. If God can just pop into existence why cant we?

 

There is a difference between "Higher Intelligence" and "God". If you follow any of these common religions you believe a perfect being just became out of nothingness and made us. If you believe in a Higher Intelligence (such as an evolved form of life) then that is completely different. You need to decide which you believe in to even start such a debate as some of you use both words together when they have completely different meanings.

 

See God is a being we are not able to comprehend. We can try but we never will. He created us and we know that. We simply can not understand him.

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See God is a being we are not able to comprehend. We can try but we never will. He created us and we know that. We simply can not understand him.

 

Yet by saying that you are giving atheists such as WinMacLin more proof to believe that the foundation of our belief is close to nothing.

Edited by APH-Alex

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The existence of a being is beyond the comprehension of one due to limitations of a human brain.

 

What is matter? What is life? What are senses? What if there are something entirely different besides the basic factor of just plain 'existing'? Does it mean everything has to exist in the same world and system we are in? To exist or not to exist, is just by human terms. I am sure there are always something quite beyond our imagination, and the whole idea of 'aliens in space' is just a hypothesis put forth to try to tell us that there are similarities out there that works basically the same way as Earth with some sort of intellectual superiority and technological advancements that Humans are not able to achieve, but what if there are something beyond 'world'.

 

Something entirely different.

 

Therefore can God exists? There are many things that are beyond what Science and a theory can explain, and for this that there must be a third party intervention to create the basis of law and order in the universe. The more we discover, the more we realize we don't know and that we cannot explain. A lot of scientists believe in the existence of God, or otherwise cannot deny the existence of a supreme being.

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The existence of a being is beyond the comprehension of one due to limitations of a human brain.

 

What is matter? What is life? What are senses? What if there are something entirely different besides the basic factor of just plain 'existing'? Does it mean everything has to exist in the same world and system we are in? To exist or not to exist, is just by human terms. I am sure there are always something quite beyond our imagination, and the whole idea of 'aliens in space' is just a hypothesis put forth to try to tell us that there are similarities out there that works basically the same way as Earth with some sort of intellectual superiority and technological advancements that Humans are not able to achieve, but what if there are something beyond 'world'.

 

Something entirely different.

 

Therefore can God exists? There are many things that are beyond what Science and a theory can explain, and for this that there must be a third party intervention to create the basis of law and order in the universe. The more we discover, the more we realize we don't know and that we cannot explain. A lot of scientists believe in the existence of God, or otherwise cannot deny the existence of a supreme being.

Agreed, but I just don't like to Follow any doctrines :) and in this World there are many things that even Top scientists cannot explain. Even Stephen Hawkings cannot deny the Existence of God in 1 of his interviews Recently.

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Yup.

 

Just some food for thought.

I fish in the ocean, knows only the world around him. To the fish, the water is the world. He has never dreamed of walking on land or flying in the air. To the fish, these ideas do not exist in his mind. To the fish, the water is all he knows.

 

Similarly, how could humans, who had never been outside of our planet (until recently) imagine that there is a God? We can't say that someone MADE UP God inorder to explain the unexplainable because this IDEA wouldn't have been present in our mind. This idea of an almighty being must have come from somewhere. It couldn't have been just simply made up.

 

Also, about the Bible. Many people claim that the bible was written by men. Yet, this doens't make any sense. The Bible contains books from many different authors from three different continents and yet none of them contradict each other. The Bible contains thousands of prophesies, a majorty of which have already been fufilled. Everything fits perfectly with no error. Who can say there is no God?

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Right, but if someone told the fish that there were such thing as outer space and different planets, they would consider that person a maniac.

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If that person were able to speak fish and talk underwater. Anyway, I think that this discussion is going pretty well :) surprisingly mature, for APH.

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It's hard not to believe in a higher existence, really. But if you just think in reason, faith is growing weaker. People these days are not as "God fearing" as they used to be, thus you see less miracles. Who knows, maybe Luther was a heretic and all protestants are making the old vengeful God angrier. Or maybe the forgiving God is (or was) angry at the Purists and varioius other denominations; while they may condemn lust and live to an entirely opulent life, would God be happy to see people using the greatest gift given to them only to use it to thank and glorify God?

 

I thought of "converting" to Christianity but I found many paradoxes and differing opinions, so I found it easier to trust in deist theory.

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Originally miracles were used as a sort of "proof" to enhance one's faith, and it was necessary at that time. You do what is necessary when it comes to the appropriate time. Nowadays it does not need to be implemented anymore.

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The reason there are fewer miracles nowadays, imo, is that nowadays we have the Bible which tells us of these miracles. Back then, they didn't have the Bible, well, they had the Old Testament, but still.

 

IMO, the Papacy and the Roman Catholics is very dangerous, because Pope Nicolas something even said that the Pope takes the place of God on Earth and that the Pope is responsible for no sin. That is why I believe that the power behind the anti-christ will be one of the later Popes, since they deem their selves higher than God. Read revelation, you'll get what I mean. Especially since the Great Babylon of modern times is Rome. (Home of the Roman Catholics, and the Pope.)

Edited by APH-Alex

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Yeah, well the problem is that today keeps associating Catholics as the same thing as a 'Protestant' in which I don't believe in this kind of qualification. The original Christianity back in the Jesus time was created (New Testament), but when that Roman king said he was going to believe in Christ, and that all believers would have tax exemption, then everyone just said they want to become a believer as well to get those benefits as well as to please the king.

 

At that time there were many religions, and many of the other religious leaders just directly 'converted' over in which they did not really 'believe' rather than just a religious name change. In this sense they just brought over many of their other religion's beliefs and integrated into a non-original result to become Catholicism. Therefore you will see a lot of stuff in the Catholic church, and including a human-supreme leader such as the Pope, as well as the stuff such as salvation through Mary, buying your way though sin, everyone will end up in heaven, etc.

 

There are many things in Catholicism that conflicts with the Bible because back in the times many were illiterate or simply didn't read the Bible. But in general, a theological difference is that 'Protestant' (Or just Christian) relies on God as a strong relationship in life (Father - son relationship, direct) rather than a theoretical supreme being (Indirect relationship) with many middlemans such as a Father, Pope, etc.

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Yeah, but what I was getting at was that sooner or later, the Pope will do something blasphemous and justify it by claiming that he takes the place of God on Earth, or claiming he is God's representative. By doing this, he tricks people into thinking that his decisions are wise and he should be allowed to do what he wants. He already is allowed to do pretty much whatever, because people think that if they oppose the Pope they will incur the wrath of God. And that's totally not true, and somehow, this 'holy man of God' believes that he is immune to all sin. Dave Hunt describes the blasphemous pretensions of the papacy:

 

"The total submission that Rome requires has been expressed by many popes, but none said it more clearly than Nicholas I (858-67:

'It is evident that the popes can neither be bound nor unbound by any earthly power, nor even by that of the apostle [Peter], if he should return upon the earth; since Constantine the Great has recognized that the pontiffs held the place of God upon earth, the divinity not being able to be judged by any living man. We are, then, infallible, and whatever may be our acts, we are not accountable for them but to ourselves.'"

 

So the popes have claimed that they hold "the place of God on earth". What's worse is that they continue to make such claims and get away with it. Because the Roman Catholic Church is such an omnipresent and powerful entity, people usually tread very lightly in attacking even the most outrageous and blasphemous claims of the modern popes and clergy.

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The Antichrist will perform many miracles to make many believe in him according to the Bible, but in order for the Jewish to believe that he is the true coming of Christ he has to be of Jewish decent. And likely to be European as well (Previous Rome/European Union), but it mentions nothing about being a pope.

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Here's a little excerpt from a book I have:

 

The Papacy Predicated in Advance

 

As we have seen, the "little horn" of Daniel is describing the false church and especially its spokesman, the pope, speaking "pompous words." In the New testament, God inspired the Apostle Jone to describe the "resurrection" of the final Beast, the Roman Empire (Revelation 13:1-10). Then, in verses 11-14, "another beast" is described as rising up, who looks like a "Lamb," or Christ, but speaks like a "dragon," Satan the devil (Revelation 12:9). This exceedingly clever and sinister false prophet "exercises all the authority of the first beast [the revived Roman Empire] in his presence, and causes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed (Revelation 13:12). In other words, this great false prophet is able to sway most of mankind to stand in awe of and obey the revived Roman Empire!

 

Then we read: "He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men. And he deceives those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived" (vv. 13-14).

 

As this system is developed, a "man of sin" would be revealed - audaciously taking to himself titles and authority that belong only to God. He was to sit as a veritable "god" and the temple of God - using some of the very titles of God. In fact, though Jesus called God "Holy Father," Roman Catholics call the pope "Most Holy Father" and "Vicar of Christ" - which literally means, "in place of Christ"! Dave Hunt describes the blasphemous pretensions of the papacy:

 

"The total submission that Rome requires has been expressed by many popes, but none said it more clearly than Nicholas I (858-67:

'It is evident that the popes can neither be bound nor unbound by any earthly power, nor even by that of the apostle [Peter], if he should return upon the earth; since Constantine the Great has recognized that the pontiffs held the place of God upon earth, the divinity not being able to be judged by any living man. We are, then, infallible, and whatever may be our acts, we are not accountable for them but to ourselves.'"

 

Few realize that the so-called "Holy" Roman Empire is being revived right under our noses! Throughout most of continental Europe, there is a great push for full European unity. One of the major players in this geopolitical chess game is the pope himself.

 

In his detailed and revealing book, The Principality and Power of Europe(pp. 36-37), British author Adrian Hilton explains what is now happening:

 

"While visiting Austria in 1983, the pope spoke out against the national and artificial borders all over Europe. He added:

 

'Europeans should overcome the menacing international confrontations of states and alliances, and create a new united Europe from the Atlantic to the Urals.'

In 1988, he continued this theme when he addressed the European parliament in Strasbourg; an occasion at which many asked why a perceived spiritual leader was addressing the issues of political unity. The Sunday Telegraph, in 1991, summed up the pope's plans for the 'evangelisation" of Europe. It stated:

'He is calmly preparing to assume the mantle which he solemnly believes to be his Divine Right - that of new Holy Roman emperor, reigning from the Urals to the Atlantic.'"

 

Although the Bible certainly does not indicate that the final pope will be the "emperor" of this revived Holy Roman Empire; it does show that he will be the "power behind the throne." As God clearly indicates to us, the coming false prophet "causes" those who will not worship this system "to be killed" (Revelation 13:15). So, as many popes did during the Middle Ages, he will use the power of the state - the "Beast" - to force his will on the entire western world!

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Revelation 17:4-6

And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and perals, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH,

And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

 

The first verse reveals the economic standing of the woman. She is rich, very wealthy and vain. And surprise surprise...what is the world's richest religion? Roman Catholicism.

As Alex mentioned before, Babylon is often connected with Rome.

The final verse reveals the history. There is only one religion who openly warred and massacred many Christians. St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre. There is only one religion that martyed so many Christians.

Edited by r3volution

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See God is a being we are not able to comprehend. We can try but we never will. He created us and we know that. We simply can not understand him.

 

See just by saying that yourself you refer to your own God as a Male. A God doesn't pro-create or have sexual organs. A God doesn't take human form.

 

You clearly don't know what you even believe.

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^ Ahh. But when God created Adam, he created Adam in HIS OWN IMAGE.

 

Genesis 5:1

"In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

 

The Bible specifically points out the gender of God.

But for the more skeptical here,

Adam...I'm pretty sure we all agree, is a male.

Edited by r3volution

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It has been giving an assumed form to be referred as in the terms. Personally I won't simply pick on a few technicalities by someone and draw strong conclusions.

 

Revelation 17:4-6

And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and perals, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH,

And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

 

The first verse reveals the economic standing of the woman. She is rich, very wealthy and vain. And surprise surprise...what is the world's richest religion? Roman Catholicism.

As Alex mentioned before, Babylon is often connected with Rome.

The final verse reveals the history. There is only one religion who openly warred and massacred many Christians. St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre. There is only one religion that martyed so many Christians.

 

I see what you are getting to. But these are all speculations, but definitely an interesting topic. I never thought of that kind of relationship (As what Alex quoted from the book), or maybe I just didn't pay enough attention into the aspect of the relationship between Roman Catholic and the Antichrist.

 

But it does mention about the mother of harlots -- which because the Church is symbolically the 'bride of God', then the harlot refers to a united religion. This means that as it is going on, Lutherans are working on a 'joint venture' to put it in business terms with Roman Catholics. I am sure more are going on and this will continue.

 

It's kind of sad how people cannot tell the difference and think it's the same thing, but the main point is that even some people in today's Church who are not clear of what they believe in is running into the same problem. Maybe that's why these things will actually happen, because it is clear that Roman Catholic vs. the Christianity is significantly different. And the distinction must be addressed of whats real and what's not.

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