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Official GTX 400 Series Discussion Thread

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Not a bad read, I agree with a lot of the things said as well. Nvidia is just really not helping itself here, it is the Intel of the old days, except they really have no new product to look forward to. At least none that we know of anyways.

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Shift, that is a great article. If true, it really helps to give some useful insight into the situation beyond Nvidia's "FERMI will be the best thing since sliced bread" marketing approach. In response to that article, some members of the Nvidia PR team sent out tweets saying that the author would be eating his words come March. As Ryan Shrout from PC Perspective said - these are the types of stunts a company pulls when they don't have a product to deliver.

 

I will comment on something that I find entertaining. I would not consider myself to be a fanboy of either ATI or Nvidia. When I am ready to purchase a graphics card, I take the money I have available and buy whatever card will bring me the best overall performance within my budget. What has been interesting to see, is how the story of some of the die hard Nvidia fanboys has changed. First, they were saying that Nvidia would be releasing a juggernaut product that would crush the ATI Radeon 5000 series. Then, as the delays continued piling on, the story switched to "they are just tweaking performance to get the best clock speeds and drivers possible with the cards." Inevitably, that line of argument has now turned to "I don't care if the nvidia cards are faster -- my current GTX 2xx GPUs play everything I want perfectly fine. I will be upgrading to FERMI when it releases because of the 3d Vision technology" which most of them don't even realize requires a new monitor for them to be able to take advantage of. Needless to say, in this round, I have been extremely happy with the 5800 series GPUs.

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Good article. Read it at work yesterday and didn't have time to reply - time to drop some NVIDIA shares!

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That's what AMD/ATI is doing -- continuous refinement of the architecture. When Intel first made the Core architecture, that's what they were doing. It only goes so far, and it's not economically feasible with regards to production and release timing like NVIDIA's Fermi to do a complete overhaul all at once. Changing more than one variable at once is very challenging to get it right the first time.

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I would think it would not be easy but they would save money on marketing and focus on revamping instead of releasing a product that is obviously not ready to be marketed.

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Exactly, save the money and go back to R&D, you have the money and the potential to do it. Nvidia has way more $$$ and is bigger than ATI/AMD, so why not spend quality time to fix the product.

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NVIDIA is a way LARGER company than AMD/ATI, but that doesn't mean they don't have financial or resource problems when it comes to the failure of producing the Fermi graphics cards on time.

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http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3740

 

Posted several months ago now, but another interesting read behind the RV870 GPU (the thing behind the awesomeness that is the 5870)

 

One sentence sums it up pretty much in response to what Kenneth said: "if you don't show up to the fight, then you've already lost"

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http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=117000

 

Benchmarks are out. Take them with a grain of salt but pictures of the card have been made available which is a very positive sign.

 

At least competitive with 5870 pricing TBA but based on the manufacturing problems they've had I can't imagine it being under $450 USD.

 

Looks to be faster than 5870 by around 10-15% and slower than the 5970 by almost 30%. Of course this is with fairly mature ATI drivers, and immature NVIDIA drivers. So expect the performance difference to increase/decrease accordingly.

Edited by shift

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Just went through the benchmarks. It really doesn't seem all that impressive. I received a ton of notifications from various manufacturers which I have on their contacts stating they are ready to launch Fermi based graphics cards as well, but other than that ATI really has the upper hand in this test, considering the immense time advantage it had over NVIDIA's lateness.

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Not surprising the performance is lackluster considering the things they had to do to it just to get a decent yield.

 

Pricing will dictate everything though and do remember these higher end parts are not the cards that will be bringing in the dough for NVIDIA, it will be the mainstream parts which ATI has a huge lead in right now.

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Actually Nvidia has almost always released its best products first to make money, takes them another quarter or two to get some lower end products out. Probably not going to work out for them this time around though.

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These cards are priced high, but the majority of users are not in the enthusiast price bracket, but rather in the mainstream price bracket which is not what the GTX 480 and 470 are placed in.

 

Same goes for ATI, despite 5870 sales being really good, these are not the cards making them money, it's the 5450's, the 5650's and the 5770/5750's that are bringing in most of their profits. This is also backed up by the fact that 90% of my video card transactions at work consist of low to mid end video cards. I get maybe 1 or 2 5870 sales a month?

Edited by shift

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That is true, however most of the time the two best or near best carda are always released first to show improvements and performance, then slowly the mid to low range ones come out. Regardless, Nvidia is already toast.

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In marketing, it's mainly the halo effect. Car companies have been doing this for years, and so have computer companies. They slap in a flagship product to retain the performance crowns, and while most consumers won't be buying it, it gives the company a positive impression for performance to sell lower end products at a higher products. For example, Audi won't be selling a lot of R8's, but it brings people into the showroom to walk out with an A4 or similar.

 

ATI's flagship cards provides an excellent impression on the company to sell the rest of the 5-series Radeon cards, and it has been very successful in doing so. Even if NVIDIA manages to deliver acceptable midrange products, the overall impression is that they are still not the market leader.

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ATI's flagship cards provides an excellent impression on the company to sell the rest of the 5-series Radeon cards, and it has been very successful in doing so. Even if NVIDIA manages to deliver acceptable midrange products, the overall impression is that they are still not the market leader.

 

Actually, NVIDIA is way behind the 8-ball on this one in the sense that ATI has a full line-up of DX11 + 40nm manufactured video cards whereas NVIDIA only has the latter in a DX10 card which they are using to compete with ATI's 5xxx series.

 

At NCIX, it's almost exclusively ATI recommendations purely because there are DX11 cards available where stock for NVIDIA's higher end is non existant (GTX 260's, 275's are hard to find at NCIX where as 5850's, 5870's, 5830's and 5770's are in huge supply)

Edited by shift

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That's true -- but DirectX 11 is more of marketing at this point than actual usefulness at this state in my opinion. It's kind of like AMD's Athlon 64 back in 2004 -- one main reason people were buying Athlon 64s was because it was 'future proof'. But not many people actually ran 64-bit Windows on their Athlon 64s, and by the time 64 bit Windows hit mainstream (Vista), we were already moving onto the age of the Core 2 Duo.

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Future proof usually does not work well, with Fermi coming out soon, I could still see some price changing for ATI if really need be. Chances are it will do almost nothing to the market and Nvidia will continue to lose ground.

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They were losing ground AND momentum a LONG time ago, just like AMD's processors. They missed the fight and that was that.

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Thats very disappointing - all this wait and its barely competitive with an ATI card that's been out for ages?!

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